For this alone, I forgive the GR Supra

"Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns" (themarvelous1310)
05/13/2019 at 18:11 • Filed to: Sequentials, Right in the Feels, Toyota GR Supra, The Odd Custom

Need I say more?

I had forgiven everything else-the disappointing looks, the lack of space, the BMW connections, all of it-but even then, the lack of a proper center console shifter in the new Supra bothered me. It’s disturbing, but more disturbing is that all the reviews call it ‘paddle shifter only’... Well, I’m happy to report that this is not the case. I was watching (PHOTO CREDIT!!!) ThatDudeInBlue on YouTube, and I noticed the above at about 50 seconds, and I can’t tell you how GREAT IT IS!

W ho needs paddles OR a full-blooded manual when the new Supra comes with the sequential manual stick in the perfect momentum-friendly, ull-to-upshift configuration? I wasn’t getting one of these, but now I might... And I’m still never touching those basic-fuckboy-ass paddles.

Here’s the video, which I stopped watching because I was excited and wanted to share, and also because he’s touching the paddles.

DISCUSSION (56)

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/13/2019 at 18:45

That’s still not enough to make me want it. Mainly because the look of the car is off. I really despise saying this but it might’ve looked better as a Lexus...[shudder].

As it stands...the Z4 is an improvement. Except for the price tags...

Cash Rewards > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/13/2019 at 19:20

“ And I’m still never touching those basic-fuckboy-ass paddles”

I think you might need to work out some unresolved anger issues regarding paddle shifters

bob and john > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/13/2019 at 19:22

I want one. simple as that. Red, Blue, or that sweet sweet silver.

sony1492 > bob and john
05/13/2019 at 19:55

Must’ ve not seen Yellow yet

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/13/2019 at 20:03

I never understood pull-to-upshift. It just feels wrong to me.

Cash Rewards > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
05/13/2019 at 20:06

The idea is that my super powerful car is already pushing me back in my seat, so pulling backwards to upshift is easier, since the shifter already weighs twice as much due to my incredibly accelerating car. Same on downshifts, when my massive brakes make push to downshift happen automatically because the shifter goes forward and down a gear due to the deceleration alone.

Really, you get used to either on a car you own and drive, I'd imagine.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Cash Rewards
05/13/2019 at 20:17

I’m still having problems with the “push to upshift, pull to downshift” on the Kona. May have to investigate how difficult it is to reverse.

Cash Rewards > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
05/13/2019 at 20:20

Gotta just be code, right? Nothing physical?

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Cash Rewards
05/13/2019 at 20:22

my hope is that worst-case I have to switch the connector cables on the switch block.

LongbowMkII > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
05/13/2019 at 20:28

The front of the car is too big for the rest of the car.

DipodomysDeserti > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/13/2019 at 20:57

Is this sarcasm and I’m an asshole for not seeing it? Because that looks like the gear shifter out of my wife’s X1.

daender > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/13/2019 at 21:07

Remove the fake door vent and the headlight vents for a cleaner look and I’m okay with it.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > Cash Rewards
05/13/2019 at 21:38

Kinja'd!!!

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
05/13/2019 at 21:39

Disagree

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > LongbowMkII
05/13/2019 at 21:42

That’s never been a problem in the history of cars. Jaguar E-Type, Mercedes 300SL/SLS/AMG GT, AMC Gremlin, Dodge Viper, I could probably go on.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > DipodomysDeserti
05/13/2019 at 21:51

It might be, I don’t give a fuck. It works the right way and it’s in the right place!

I grew up in malaise era GM cars, where my uncle’s STS had the same dials and buttons as my mother’s Lumina, I’m used to the idea of parts sha4ing and don’t hold it against a car. Also, as an engineer, I can appreciate going with what works instead of reinventing every wheel, and that ZF is considered the best slushbox available a nd BMWs are T he Ultimate Driving Meme, so why not let them do the basics and build something more awesome for less? I really don’t understand why that’s such a problem.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > DipodomysDeserti
05/13/2019 at 22:19

Pretty much is since the Supra is on BMW's CLAR platform which also underpins a number of their X series of vehicles...and it's a BMW developed ZF 8 speed auto too which means it's about as sequential as a daytime soap opera.

DipodomysDeserti > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
05/13/2019 at 22:34

They put the ZF8 in the Supra? What a dumb car.

Thankfully my wife has a 1st gen X1 which was built on the same platform as the E90 wagon, but it does have the same ZF8. Great transmission for something like an X1. Not a chance in hell I’d want one in a sports car.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > DipodomysDeserti
05/13/2019 at 22:44

Agree. Selecting D and then driving is not sporty. And pulling the stick left and selecting swizzle mode reminds me of playing in Dad's car when I was 10...

DipodomysDeserti > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/13/2019 at 22:46

I guess for those of us that build a own stuff, a manufacturer not building their own sports cars is a bit shameful. Especially when they stick soccer mom parts in them. However , Toyota is a lot better at making money than me, and definitely know their market...which is definitely not me.

Kinja'd!!!

The new Supra, grounded to the ground.

DipodomysDeserti > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
05/13/2019 at 22:48

Exactly, and this particular stick is really just a button, so it feels like an arcade game.

bob and john > sony1492
05/13/2019 at 22:59

I did. Not bad. But to much canary yellow not enough gold

Human on Display > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
05/13/2019 at 23:04

its not on BMWs CLAR platform. It's a brand new chassis design but Toyota and BMW for these cars. The drivetrain and interior are the only pure BMW parts.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Cash Rewards
05/13/2019 at 23:38

Paddle shifters are dope. Butter than a “I wish I was a manual” “shifter”

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Human on Display
05/14/2019 at 06:33

Sorry, Sport... it’s on BMW’s CLAR platform. Granted...this particular iteration of CLAR (it is a modular platform after all) may be bespoke to the Z4 and the Supra...but it is still CLAR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_CLAR_platform

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > DipodomysDeserti
05/14/2019 at 07:27

Fun Fact: I had two driving instructors-Cruisin’ World and Rush 2049, both at the local Magic Johnson Theatre.

So, 'like a video game' suits me just fine!

LongbowMkII > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 08:05

Those are long, not too big. The new supras nose is too wide and too tall visually. The facia emphasizes width, then the nose taper combined with the extreme taper of the greenhouse (in both length and width) makes every picture look like it was shot with a fishbowl lens.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
05/14/2019 at 08:21

You guys do realize that transmissions are modified and optimized for each individual application, right? Like, the six speed in a Yukon Denali might be the same brand and type of six speed in a Corvette, but tuned completely differently?

Everybody who’s driven the damn thing s ays th e transmission works well , shifts quick and makes cool fart sounds. Maybe give it a chance before you dog it?

UserNotFound > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 08:26

Ah the GR Supra. The car that we all desperately want to like so badly that we’ve started rationalizing slushboxes.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > DipodomysDeserti
05/14/2019 at 08:31

It’s. Not. The. Same. They redo the gear ratios for every car... So it has sporty ratios in the sports car, and commuter ratios in the commuter car.

It’s like you’re all standing a half inch from a painting , complaining about the lines of one shape in an art-deco masterpiece. Step back, see how it all fits together , THEN judge.

Dru > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 09:04

Honestly one thing that kind of bugs me about this car, I think, is how “modular” it seems? After watching Doug’s video with all the Q’s and F’s, I was a little stunned at how they made it ready to mod. I see the upside, but it’s almost like it’s not finished.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > UserNotFound
05/14/2019 at 09:13

I never had a problem with slushboxes, just paddles. They're lame. I ’m the guy that powershifts his Buick Century’s 4T65E with the column shifter on track days, I love a good clutch but I’m not gonna throw the whole car away over it.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > LongbowMkII
05/14/2019 at 09:16

Yeah, it photographs bad. I think it’s a round car problem, I felt the same way about Panameras until I saw one.

Ooh, I got another one! BTM Cheetah!

cargone!cargone! > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 09:47

The logic of bashing paddle shifters in favor of the even more fake feeling “shifter” is insanely flawed.....

JustAnotherG6 > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 09:59

Then why couldn’t they make the transmission in a 4 cyl. G6 shift worth a damn?

chaozbandit > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 10:41

Or leave it in auto

DipodomysDeserti > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 10:54

Yeah, I learned to drive and ride using actual cars, some of them vintage vehicles, so driving a modern auto is boring to me. It’s great for taking the kids to school, though!

UserNotFound > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 10:54

The only “paddle shift” cars I’ve driven were definitely super lame, but they were just regular automatics with gimmick buttons on the steering wheel. But in my eye the +/- on the auto sticks a re just as gimmicky.

DipodomysDeserti > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 10:58

Shift feel and engagement will be the same even if they use different gear ratios. And I doubt the gear ratios will be that much different. The ZF8 in my wife’s X1 and my dad’s M235i felt the same. It’s great in the commuter car, but boring in a sporty car.

But this car was made for people who buy modern Toyota cars, so I think it’ll be fine for them.

McMike > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 11:53

That’s glorious. Push (-) Pull (+) as god intended.

The other way is stupid and illogical.

Fight me.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > Dru
05/14/2019 at 12:05

Oh, I fully and completely expect that Toyota’s got some nastier versions coming down the line. I also think they expect us to tune and mod these halfway to Hell and thrash ’em the rest of the way there, so they t ried to make it easier by using common parts and keeping common labels . That way, when you inevitably have something break, it’s easy to identify and order.

But yeah, it’s a little kit-car-esque to be a factory effort-that actually makes it cooler, like something the employees whipped up while the higher-ups weren’t looking... Except one of the higher-ups was looking on, in secret, with an evil grin and plans of world domination...

Kinja'd!!!

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > chaozbandit
05/14/2019 at 12:11

Nah

Skygaizur001 > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 15:07

I can't....call me what you will, a PROPER manual has THREE pedals. Feeling the car that way is irreplaceable...

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > UserNotFound
05/14/2019 at 15:59

I grew up watching rally racing videos, guys getting sideways with one hand while ripping through gears with the other... Gated shifters and center - mounted sequentials, that’s what I like.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > Skygaizur001
05/14/2019 at 16:02

I agree, but it's not too hard to find a manual for this particular engine. People are already swapping 2JZs into these things, a tranny swap shouldn't be too hard-only now I don't have to even do that to get some level of enjoyment from it!

ihm96 > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 16:39

I only own manual cars, but Ive driven all numbers of them in my time as a porter and I can assuredly say paddle shifters are better than that shitty BMW stick. None of the BMWs I’ve used with it are responsive enough and the paddles can be much better

Bonus points if the paddles are standalone behind the wheel ala a 458 because then you can easily shift gears mid turn.

Also the ZF8 is nothing special, give me a DCT style box anyday they feel much better for a performance car. Something like the box used in a C63 or RS car

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/14/2019 at 18:13

Of course...but the basic programming and engineering are the same. Yes it’s probably quite a fine transmission since it appears in many BMWs but it is still just an automatic gearbox.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > ihm96
05/14/2019 at 23:03

You guys... It's a base model. I'm sure there's gonna be better models with better transmissions.

ihm96 > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/15/2019 at 05:38

But there aren’t. And having a gimmicky stick won’t ever change that. It’s half assed.

If you’re gonna go automatic, do it right and go with a column shifter like Benz. No point taking up the whole center console unless you’re the one shifting

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > ihm96
05/15/2019 at 08:32

I am the one shifting, dummy. With the center console shifter, too.

ihm96 > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/15/2019 at 09:00

Look if you wanna make apologies for the fact that Toyota wants to make a pure sports car with a luxury transmission because they added a little thing you can pull down to slowly upshift that’s good for you. That stick does nothing but try to mimic a shifter So you can try and look cool as you drive with one hand on the wheel and one on the shifter like you’re in a stick shift (except good manual drivers generally stay off the stick)

Unless there’s a clutch there’s no need for a center console shifter

ihm96 > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/15/2019 at 09:02

That’s cool and all, but the bmw stick feels nothing like a sequential manual, and its less responsive than the paddles in the car. If you wanna look cool to passengers and not do anything that’s what the plus minus shifter is there for basically

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > ihm96
05/15/2019 at 10:47

First of all, punctuation marks exist and are good to use, assuming you don’t want to come off as incoherent.

“That stick does nothing but try to mimic a shifter”

No, it actually changes the gears, so it IS a shifter. Pull back, new gear. Push forward, new gear. Shifter!

“So you can try and look cool as you drive with one hand on the wheel and one on the shifter like you’re in a stick shift (except good manual drivers generally stay off the stick)

Unless there’s a clutch there’s no need for a center console shifter”

Cool, go email Peter Solberg and every other rally driver, so they’ll know they’re wasting time.

Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns > ihm96
05/15/2019 at 10:54

Passengers?

Why would I have other people in my car? Center console shifters feel good.

Also, how would one way of shifting a preprogrammed transmission be slower than another, and how would that not be something I could fix with a custom ECU flash?

ihm96 > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/15/2019 at 13:10

The gearbox in that car is worlds different from what we’re discussing here. If you really think pulling down the electric stick that sends a signal to change gear in your slushbox is similar to a sequential gearbox then you’re delusional

ihm96 > Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns
05/15/2019 at 13:17

Your racecar argument about these transmissions really doesn’t hold up. I guess Senna, Schumacher, and all the F1 drivers are fuckboys? Same with most GT3 cars and WEC Prototypes?

Not sure why you have such an insecurity for paddles